Scottish Orienteering

Andrew Dalgleish says:

‘Interesting’ comments, which seem to focus on the double header weekend idea becoming practice for every SOL, which I don’t think is the case.  It’s an outstanding way of increasing participation as many will travel for a full weekend of racing but won’t travel for a single event (even with a smaller event tagged on to it)
As long as it doesn’t become a precedent for 6 of the events a year then it’s clearly the best way to go, long may the double header weekend live! (and that’s coming from one who can’t make it this weekend and is losing out on precious SOL points)

Mark Nixon says:

I think Interlopers are making a mountain out of a mole-hill on this one.

It’s been stated that this double SOL weekend is due to fixtures congestion, yet our friends in Interlopers seem to have made a large unjustified assumption that every SOL from now on will be doubled up.

It’s far better to double up SOLs onto one weekend than not have the second SOL at all.

Having smaller events (training, middles, sprints etc.) is a great way to make a weekend out of things, and an occasional (once per year) won’t hurt anyway, it could even be the SOL final weekend…

Sarah Dunn says:

I think doubling up some of the SOLs is an excellent idea. If it encourages people to travel further and increases participation then the competition will be stronger, which must be healthy. Also if it reduces the number of long journeys that folk make (compared with travelling to single events) then it’s got to be good news. Perhaps we could even be really radical and consider the possibility of introducing some middle distance SOL races, since this has now been an accepted IOF format for some 15 years or so….

Mike Rodgers says:

I’m missing both of them due to going off on hols and hadn’t given it much more thought other than thinking “that’s just tough”.

Now having thought about it a bit more, I tend to agree with point 7 ie

It will reduce the opportunity for other more needy events to be doubled up with a SOL, namely the British and Scottish Nights, Sprint, Score, 11-Person, Compass-sport cup, Home Internationals, etc.

Here in Moravian we organised the Scottish Sprint Champs 2 weeks ago and just scraped over the 100 entries mark for what was acknowledged to be a pretty good event in a great area into which a lot of great organisational effort was put by Roo & Caroline Hornby and Eddie Harwood. We’d combined this with an INVOC event at Anagach on the Sunday which drew over 200!  While there are far too many ‘traditional’ orienteers who aren’t prepared to give sprint O a chance, I still bet that the sprints would have attracted nearer the 200 mark had they been combined with a SOL.

That said, if not having 2 SOLs over the same weekend means that we end up with only 6 events in the year then I’m all for it.

Sheila Strain says:

Like Interlopers I am strongly against two SOLs in the same weekend for two of the reasons mentioned:
Illness (or other commitments) on the weekend taking out two, not just one, of possible counting points;
Time - for those who do not have the time available (for example due to studying deadline commitments which is my personal problem with this weekend) to spend both days of the weekend orienteering.
As someone who normally prioritises SOLs and aims to achieve as high as possible a placing it has put me in a difficult situation this weekend.

Sarah Dunn says:

Interesting to note from the pre-entries for both days this weekend that there are only 5 extra runners on Sunday. Total entries for both days are definitely higher than recent SOLs in the NE.

Sarah Dunn says:

Actually - I think I got that the wrong way round…. 5 more pre-entered for Saturday

Sam Gomersall says:

I think that an occasional double SOL weekend is an excellent idea. If in increases the number of participants and allows all the events to be fitted into the calendar it must be good. Trying new formats will help to move the sport forwards.

Terry O'Brien says:

From memory I seem to recall that SOA Executive received several “complaints” about a Double Header in the early 1990s. However having looked through SOA Minutes I cannot find any double SGs/SOLs but certainly weekends where SGs & Scottish Score in Northern Scotland were combined which to me made sense at the time.

Points made already are fairly valid and I don’t see this as an Annual happening.

Middle distance races were linked to SGs/SOLs in early 2000s but support was lukewarm.

Even with a Double Header, MAROC & GRAMP won’t make a large surplus on the weekend unless there are NO TOILETS & NO JUNIORS.

If you want to make £, don’t organise Orienteering Events - large entries just mean levies are even more crippling! 500 bodies you will pay total levies in excess of £1000.

Lets enjoy the forthcoming weekend of events.

Dave Robertson says:

I wouldn’t be in favour of every, oe even most, SOLs being part of a doubleheader, but think that the occasional one is fine. It certainly encouraged me to go on the longish journey this weekend.

Phil Smith says:

I think many of the comments both for and against double headers are valid; you’ve just got to sort out the pro’s and con’s and come up with a solution!
Mine would be to make it occasional rather than a regular thing; I feel it may increase participation if you are travelling far from your home club area and there’s an argument that’s more environmentally friendly than 2 separate trips to far flung parts of the country!

Angela Dixon says:

I’m not keen on back to back SOLs, but mainly because it means that if like this weekend I’m busy at the weekend I miss out on 2 SOLs. I can see the argument of it encouraging folk to go to far flung places and make a weekend of it though, although a local event and a SOL, or night event and SOL might be just as good.
If you get a discount for having toilets on 2 consecutive days then it starts to make more sense, also if it encourages clubs to put on SOLs who otherwise wouldn’t bother.

Phil Smith says:

I guess the long running TINTO Twin being a prime example!!

Andy Paterson says:

I spoke to people on either side of the fence on this one over the weekend. Personally I couldnt have justified the long trip up twice so would have been unlikely to go to Coull if this hadnt been a double header. I do think environmental (or at least fuel prices) are a consideration these days. I’m also not sure how realistic it is to assume many people will make a weekend of it if you add on a minor event every time on the Saturday. Where does everybody get the time and money from for all these weekends away?

scott mckendrick says:

andy… surely like me your club covered travelling and accommodation expenses? expect the form in the post terry.
after my 2 metre contour experience at forvie i am now firmly against all double headers.

Andy Paterson says:

Scott - since you finished behind me I suspect Terry might be looking for his money back! I’m thinking of buying up half a dozen old portaloos and hiring them out to finance my trips in future….

Dave McQuillen says:

It would appear to me that both sides have made valid points, hard to dispute.  Those against the SOL double-header, that is, in support of some or all of the thirteen Interlopers points, are arguing for the sake of the competition as a fair league series.  Those for the idea seem to have the environment and cost in mind.  Which is more important to you depends on your personal circumstances and priorities.  On balance my view is that combining two events over a weekend is fine but only one should be a SOL.  The attraction for me last weekend was that I had never orienteered at Coull or Forvie, not that they were SOLs.  However, my approach to these arguments is to try to take things to their logical conclusion.  If limiting travel cost and damage to the environment is the priority then why not run all seven rounds over a single week and thus create the Scottish 7-Days?  :o)
Seriously, though, I would hope that this year’s SOL5-6 was a one-off and that in future SOL rounds are run on separate weekends spread across the year and, more importantly, spread across the country.

Dick Carmichael says:

Having just returned yesterday from the World Masters Orienteering Champs in Australia incorporated in the World Masters Sydney Games 2009 with some 31000 competitors in 29 sports I am really focussed by the facts that:
1) Club member Marjory Foreman who ran with us in WMOC 08 in Portugal has died while we were in Oz last week and tomorrow we will be at her funeral.
2) Tinto Twin’s 22nd event weekend is next week. Not 2 Sol’s but two attractive events every year. eg Welcome back to Inshriach in 2010.
3) I have lost 2/7 of my SOL year in my fortnight away.
Conclusion. Yes please make the weekends double headers but please have only one SOL or Championship on each.
Dick Carmichael

Jon Musgrave says:

If we allow every major Scottish event to be stand alone we will run out of weekends - 7 x SOLs, Scottish Champs weekend, Score, Sprint, Night, 11 person relay - that is 12 weekends used up, add in JK, British, British Middle, British Sprint and you’re up to 16 weekends of the year - before you’ve even considered local events and non-orienteering weekends.  Doubling up makes a lot of sense: 1 - financially for the organising clubs.  2 - environmentally, saving fuel on excessive travelling.  3 - improving our image with local authorities and tourist bodies by showing we can attract people to areas for a whole weekend (more local spending).  4 - creating gaps in the calendar for clubs to put on more local events - try it your club might even get some new members if there are frequent enough local events.